The Eat at Joe's K5000 Wav Resynthesis Project
Drawbar Organ
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Speaking of organs...
Friday, 30-Oct-98 13:48:24
192.86.155.95 writes:
I found the layout of the original hammond drawbars. Here it is (I pray to the
gods of html and formatting that this shows up right):
1 brown 16'
2 brown 5-1/3'
3 white 8'
4 white 4'
5 black 2-2/3'
6 white 2'
7 black 1-3/5'
8 black 1-1/3'
9 white 1'
The amplitude values would range linearly from 1 to 8 for each drawbar. It looks
like it would take 3 sources to emulate a drawbar organ (one fundamental, one
tuned to a third, and one to a fifth. Hmmm...would make for some very nice patch
waveforms perhaps? I did not do it correctly when I made the patches that are in
the archive.
I don't know what the colors are for, anyone?
You can get some drawbar settings here: http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/paul.htm.
Anyone know how to effectively implement a Leslie (the cabinet, not Leslie Sanford)
on the K5K? You can get a description of what's going on in a Hammond-Leslie FAQ at
http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/hammond-faq_toc.html.
Kenji
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Level conversions
Friday, 30-Oct-98 16:27:10
209.160.126.74 writes:
This is Leslie Sanford again (not the Leslie speaker). ;-) Using Jens formula I
worked out the levels you would need to set the K5K to correspond the the Hammond
organ (in theory). I don't know how to set this up as a table and it come out
looking right, so bear with me:
8=127, 7=125, 6=123, 5=121, 4=119, 3=115, 2=111, 1=103.
There is an excellent article in Keyboard magazine (Nov. 1991) about the Hammond
organ. It features several drawbar settings used by famous players. Most of the
have the stops they use pulled all the way out, so I don't know how useful the
above info will be.
Leslie
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Re: Speaking of organs...
Friday, 30-Oct-98 17:02:10
192.28.2.16 writes:
You can find all of these harmonics in a single ADD if you set it down an octave
(12 steps) and take harmonic 2 as your fundamental. The harmonics correspond to
the drawbars as follows:
Harmonic
1 brown 16' 1
2 brown 5-1/3' 3
3 white 8' 2
4 white 4' 4
5 black 2-2/3' 6
6 white 2' 8
7 black 1-3/5' 10
8 black 1-1/3' 12
9 white 1' 16
The brown drawbars are sub-harmonics, i.e. harmonics 1 and 3 of a note an octave
below the note you play. The white drawbars are octaves and the black are
harmonics that fall on the fifth and the third.
But . . . I've read that pure sine tones make a cheesy organ. Vox and Farfisa
tones were more like sines than B3 tones, which had more "color" or off-sine
wobbles. Maybe additional harmonics could be added to get a better tone.
>Anyone know how to effectively implement a Leslie (the cabinet, not Leslie
Sanford) on the K5K?
Use the Leslie effect on the K5k! I forget what it's called. Rotator?
leiter
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Re: Re: Speaking of organs...
Friday, 30-Oct-98 18:09:56
192.86.155.92 writes:
If we could get our hands on a sample of an organ note with only one drawbar
pulled then perhaps we could pull it apart and get a harmonic profile. The ideal
organ then would have to be a multi-patch so that each drawbar tone could have it's
own additive profile (requiring 9 sources). Actually since a lot of organ tones
don't use all 9 drawbars anyway you could probably do a large number of sounds with
just a single patch. Does anyone know where we could get the kind of
hammond sample we need?
Kenji
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A question about percussion
Friday, 30-Oct-98 21:43:41
209.160.126.41 writes:
I was wondering how the hammond generates its percussion sound and how this might
be synthesised.
Also, does the K5K have any attack transients for the Hammond?
Leslie
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Re: A question about percussion
Friday, 30-Oct-98 22:06:42
199.199.157.34 writes:
>Also, does the K5K have any attack transients for the Hammond?
There's an "Organ Key Click" for attack, and also an "Organ Noise Loop".
I've got some vintage instrument romplers that may have good samples of a single
drawbar; I'll take a look.
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Re: Re: A question about percussion
Saturday, 31-Oct-98 00:50:51
199.199.157.35 writes:
>I've got some vintage instrument romplers that may have good samples of a single
drawbar; I'll take a look.
OK, I checked it, and it looks like the harmonics fall off quickly as you go up
the series, like A(n)=1/(n^4).
I'm putting together some patches. I've tried 888000000, which sounds good and
heavy, but the rompler patches I'm referring to all have some high drawbars out.
What are some good drawbar settings?
leiter
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Drawbar settings
Saturday, 31-Oct-98 02:29:08
209.160.126.119 writes:
Here are some drawbar settings from Keyboard magazine Nov. 1991:
The ELP Sound
16', 5-1/3', and 8' pulled out to the max(8).
"Sometimes I'd have the '4 drawbar pulled out too. Normally I kept percussion to
a minimum, with a very short attack, on the third harmonic..."
-Keith Emerson
The "Green Onions" Groove
1st Chorus: 16', 5-1/3', 8', and 4' pulled out to the max.
2nd Chorus: 16', 8', 4', and 1' pulled out to the max.
"That's my sound on a lot of my stuff, with the second or third stop on the lower
manual for quiet chords, depending on how high or low I want them to be."
-Booker T. Jones
The "Jesse Crawford" Setting
16', and 4' pulled to the max.
"To get the full theatre organ effect that Jesse Crawford popularized in the
silent movie era, play this registration with both hands in open harmony..."
-Rosemary Bailey
Old Sounds In New Hands
16', 5 1/3, 8, and 1-1/3' pulled to the max with 4' pulled to 4.
"This is my solo setting, with the 1-1/3' drawbar adding a little whistle."
-Joey De Francesco
Leslie
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Re: Re: Re: A question about percussion
Sunday, 01-Nov-98 23:35:56
199.199.157.22 writes:
>OK, I checked it, and it looks like the harmonics fall off quickly as you go up
the series, like A(n)=1/(n^4).
On further listening, this works better: A(n)=1/(n^3).
leiter
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Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about percussion
Monday, 02-Nov-98 04:28:31
209.160.126.115 writes:
In other words, each stop should be treated as a collection of harmonics with
the profile A(n)=1/(n^3)?
Leslie
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A question about percussion
Monday, 02-Nov-98 11:45:40
199.199.157.33 writes:
A(n)=1/n^3 for each stop, yes. When I "Import"ed a single stop sample it looked
more like 1/n^4, but once I stacked a few of those together I couldn't hear much
difference between using that or using a single sine. Using 1/n^3 makes a sound
that's brighter but also richer and easier on the ears. The overtones of a real
drawbar may favor the odds or may be less harmonic; I don't know. See if you like
the two patches I'm sending, "B3888808" and "B3 Full".
leiter
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Using a single source for the organ sound
Monday, 02-Nov-98 06:00:52
209.160.126.100 writes:
Well, I programmed in the waves for the organ sound using A(n)=1/(n^3) and it
certainly sounded much fuller than my original patch. I guess the best way to
program the sound would be to use one source per stop. However, polyphony being
at a premium, I was thinking of combining the waves for each stop into one source.
I haven't tried this yet, but I think I have the formulas right. First you would
calculate the first stop:
A(n)=1/(n^3)
Then the third stop (8'):
A(n+1)=A(n+1)+1/(n^3)
Then the second stop (5-1/3'):
A(n+2)=A(n+2)+1/(n^3)
I guess another way of putting it would be:
A(n)=1/(n^3)+A(n-1)+A(n-2)
(Although I not sure what you would do when n-2 is -1).
This would give you the drawbar setting of the first three stops pulled to the
max. All you would need to do is lower the source one octave.
For a little extra spice you could add percusion by turning up the sixth harmonic
all the way and give it a short decay.
Leslie
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Re: Using a single source for the organ sound
Monday, 02-Nov-98 11:49:46
199.199.157.33 writes:
That sounds right, except I can't tell if you're skipping harmonics, i.e., the
drawbar that starts at the third harmonic uses 3, 6, 9, 12, etc. I messed that up
at first. Otherwise we're in parallel!
leiter
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Re: Re: Using a single source for the organ sound
Monday, 02-Nov-98 13:42:13
209.160.126.156 writes:
Your right, I didn't take that into account. So it should be:
A(n)=1/(n^3)
A(n*2)=A(n*2)+1/(n^3)
A(n*3)=A(n*3)+1/(n^3)
I have no idea how you would write this as a single equation, though.
Leslie
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More on percussion
Friday, 30-Oct-98 23:42:54
209.160.126.83 writes:
From the keyboard article I mentioned, I found out that the Hammond percussion
feature generates an attack transient either one octave above the fundamental or
an octave and a fifth. Assuming that the source is tuned down one octave, this
would be either harmonic 4 or 6. The decay of the transient can be set to "fast"
or "slow". Also, the effect can be set to "normal" or "soft".
When I listened to a sample of the percussion sound by itself, it sounded to me
like an sine wave (with a little noise) with a fast decay. Based on this I created
a simple organ sound with the source tuned down one octave. I turned up harmonics
1,2, and 3 to the max and gave them a sustaining envelope. I turned up harmonic 6
to the max and and gave it a fast decay to mimic the percussion sound. The results
were not spectacular, but usable. Maybe when I can finally get a K5000s I can
use the attack transients mentioned to spice it up.
Leslie
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Poor man's key click
Saturday, 31-Oct-98 00:36:41
209.160.126.146 writes:
One last thing, then I promise I'll shut up. Since I only have a K5 at present, I
don't have the PCM attack transients to work with. So for the key click, I used a
second source. I set the source to be fixed. That way it will be the same pitch
regardless of the key that is played. I fixed the pitch at G1 (98hz). I turned up
the first harmonic to the max. The second, I turned up to about 3/4 of the way, and
the third, I turned up about half way. I set the envelopes for all of the harmonics
for an instant attack and decay. In other words, I turned all the settings to 0 for
the envelopes. This gave a really nice "pop" sound. Mixing this with the first
source I described above really added a subtle edge to it.
Leslie
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