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The Eat at Joe's Kawai K5000 Message Board Digest
Cross Modulation Distortion


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Certain patches sound distorted.
 Sunday, 11-Apr-99 23:20:23 

      152.163.195.199 writes:

      Hello

      I am using os 4.0 . My problem is when I play certain patches and I play more than
      1 key it causes the sound to distort and crackle. Like for instance on patch 4 (i
      think it is the power organ) it really does it bad. How do I prevent or fix this
      problem and is it happening in ALL the K5k's?


      Thanks so much for any help.
      Bob 

      Robert Dubofsky 

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Re: Certain patches sound distorted.
 Monday, 12-Apr-99 10:18:59 

      192.28.2.16 writes:

      On some patches with a lot of high harmonics there are cross modulation frequencies
      that show up when you play certain intervals, especially more dissonant intervals.
      Is that it?

      I'm not sure how to fix that, except to turn down the harmonics or don't play those
      intervals. 

      leiter 

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Re: Certain patches sound distorted.
 Monday, 12-Apr-99 12:50:23 

      205.227.43.11 writes:

      Have you tried turning the output on the synth down and the output on your
      mixer/amplifier up? Some of the v4.0 patches have too much gain and begin to clip.


      Kenji 

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Re: Re: Certain patches sound distorted.
 Monday, 12-Apr-99 15:08:12 

      205.188.199.181 writes:

      Yes Leiter, I think that is what is happening. And Kenji , I have tried that and
      it sometimes works but on that certain patch it just wont help it any. It even
      clips at low levels. It seems like such a waste of a beautiful patch when you cant
      play it due to the distortion. 

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Re: Re: Re: Certain patches sound distorted.
 Monday, 12-Apr-99 16:34:14 

      192.28.2.16 writes:

      Another useful OS addition would be a function to add slight variations in the
      frequencies of individual harmonics--sort of a "frequency dithering". That might
      help eliminate the unwanted cross modulation frequencies. It also might warm up
      patches that are "too digital".


      leiter 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Certain patches sound distorted.
 Monday, 12-Apr-99 18:22:00 

      205.227.43.11 writes:

      In the past I remember that we had experienced briefly with distributing the
      harmonics for one sawtooth wave across several sources and then detuning various
      sources differently. We never looked into it very thoroughly though. If you don't
      mind eating up extra polyphony, would it be possible to make patches that sound
      "less digital" in this way?


      Kenji 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Certain patches sound distorted.
 Monday, 12-Apr-99 21:10:46 

      199.199.158.188 writes:

      >In the past I remember that we had experienced briefly with distributing the
      >harmonics for one sawtooth wave across several sources and then detuning
      >various sources differently. We never looked into it very thoroughly though.
      >If you don't mind eating up extra polyphony, would it be possible to make
      >patches that sound "less digital" in this way?

      I just tried it again-- Static detuning sounded somewhat like ring modulation.
      Using the random LFO made it jitery but not warmer. Maybe it depends on how
      you do it, though. 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Certain patches sound distorted.
 Thursday, 15-Apr-99 11:33:00 

      207.172.64.55 writes:


      This is a really difficult thing. 
      The neat thing about simpler synth methods 
      (analog) is you don't have to worry about 
      these kind of things happening. What I do now
      is, work on a patch, and sample a REALLY long
      sound of the key with the character I want
      (if maybe the rest have distortion or are too
      low in amplitude), then pan it across my sampler
      and play that. Usually turns out pretty nice,
      you have to do some quick adjusting so the 
      decay times are equal but it's possible with 
      my Asr. Of course this way no awesome FF live
      manipulations, but at least you have the 
      integrity of the patch. 

      A note on the distortions though, If you 
      sample those, and play those as simple notes
      (one keys) those sound pretty cool too! Like
      trumpets or something. I did that to one of
      Kenji's noise patches, and made a cool little
      techno tune out of it. 

      Ivan.

      P.s. I apologize for my disappearance from
      the onelist, but I have been absolutely too
      busy to do anything. (plus everybody bombarded
      the list with ideas.) I still might be able 
      to get something together, but I'm not sure)



      Ivan 


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